FORCED TO FLEE IN CONVERSATION WITH SUZANNE LASZLO, MANAGING DIRECTOR OF UNICEF NETHERLANDS
We spoke to Suzanne Laszlo about the refugee crisis and the role UNICEF takes in this. Suzanne Laszlo is the director of UNICEF in the Netherlands.
Could you please tell us something about yourself & about your job as director of UNICEF the Netherlands?
‘’I think it’s great that you two are involved in Forced to Flee and that you are also part of the UNICEF youth panel in the Netherlands. Because it’s so important to listen to youth, to take your ideas into consideration and to learn from you. My name is Suzanne Laszlo. I’ve been working for UNICEF for almost 4 yours now. I’m very proud to be working for UNICEF. It’s a privilege to be able to stand up for children’s rights. From our office in the Netherlands we raise funds for children worldwide, we lobby for the rights of children in the Netherlands and abroad and we provide information about children’s rights, especially in schools. Before UNICEF I worked for the Netherlands ‘red cross’ for a very long time, so I know the field of humanitarian aid and development very well.
We work here with a team of over a 100 people to make as much of an impact as possible for children. So that they can grow up safe and healthy, no matter where they are born. Because, both of you know that, we are there for every child.’’
What part of your job do you like the most?
‘’There are two things I like the most about my job. The first thing is being part of an organization who supports vulnerable people, in this case children. That’s for me the most important thing about my job. No matter what I do in an organization, I think it’s very important that the impact of the organization I support should be for children. Every day I know I can give support to those who don’t have everything that we have and what we have had when we were children.
Another thing that I like about my job is to work in teams and to see whatever we can do with, in this case, 100 people. To get the most out of it and get everyone to do their best. Give them their own responsibility, inspire them, so that the impact and the results are as high as possible.’’
The UNICEF website states that UNICEF is committed to every child from the Netherlands; regardless of gender, origin, religion or skin color- worldwide. This means that UNICEF is also committed to children that have to flee due to various circumstances. Can you tell us a bit more about this?
‘’Yes. All children in the world have the same rights. We all know that. And refugee children are one of the most vulnerable groups of children in the Netherlands, in terms of care, education, shelter or legal position, health care and the start of their future. It’s very important to realize that children fleeing from a country don’t just do that. A lot has to happen before that. It’s brutal for children and everything that we as UNICEF can do to make these children feel safe again and to offer certainty about the future, we have to do. I think for UNICEF it’s important that refugee and migrant children can go to school, have access to health care, a safe place to sleep and live and help to cope with any traumatic experiences they have had.
In the Netherlands, our focus is on advocacy and lobby to improve the living conditions in asylum seekers centers. We also advocate for a child-friendly returning procedure. That means that if children have to leave, this has to be prepared carefully. So that everyone can be sure that there is a future for the child in the country where they will be returning. So that they can be safe. One other important thing is the endless moving of children. They’ll have trouble making friends, they develop emotional problems and often end up at the bottom of waiting lists at a new location. Eventually they don’t want to make new friends anymore because they’re not sure if they can stay and they have to do it again and again. That makes them very uncertain about everything that’s going to happen.’’
What is it that UNICEF does about that problem?
‘’We talk with governments. We talk with all people that are involved to explain to them again and again that this is a problem. UNICEF has a lot of research so we can prove that it’s not good for children and that there are children’s rights. Governments rectified these rights so they have to take all these rights into account and that’s not always the case.’’
Speaking about rights, we’d like to know what do you think is the most important children’s right?
‘’It’s so difficult to choose one. There are two that I think are perhaps the most important. The first one is the right to have your own opinion and to be heard. I think children need to be able to give their opinion on things that concern them. That doesn’t mean we have to do everything children are saying. But just really and seriously listening is so important.
And the other one is education. Learning in a safe place, developing yourself. It’s so incredibly important, it gives them better opportunities for the future.’’
Do you think that these children’s rights are guaranteed during the journey that many children on the run have to experience?
‘’I’m afraid not. We all know that the children on the run lack a lot. And we know that when the parents make the choice to flee, the situation must be bad. They’re vulnerable and often in danger. So, I think being heard and having education is sadly often not possible when you’re fleeing. Parents know that it’ll be very difficult for children. When this is the choice they make, you can imagine how their life must be. It’s often also out of love for their children, because they want to offer them a safer future.’’
Could you think of other children’s rights that can’t be guaranteed during this journey?
‘’When you’re going from country to country you’ll probably have something to eat and a place to sleep but all of the other rights, you don’t have them in that situation. And that’s why migrant children/ refugee children are so vulnerable. And we have to change the situation for those children.’’
Speaking of children’s rights and the journey these refugees have to take. What would you personally like to change in the way that the Netherlands deals with the children who have to flee from their country?
‘’I first think that when the children are here they shouldn’t have to move all the time. And they should have access to education. We should really think about the mental support we can give to them. There is a lot of social support needed, because they are traumatized. I think these are the kind of things we could do better in the Netherlands. We’re a rich country, we have almost everything we need. And I even think that we could accommodate more children in the Netherlands to be honest.’’
As the director of UNICEF in the Netherlands, what do you think UNICEF can contribute to children fleeing to the Netherlands?
‘’What we’re already doing is the lobby and advocacy. But perhaps it’s also good to talk about Team-Up. Because that’s a program that we’ve developed together with WarChild and Save the Children for refugee children in the Netherlands to give them social and emotional support, through sports and activities. What we’ve seen is that refugee children are so exposed to traumatic events and experiences that gives significant stress during the journeys. They often have nightmares and they can really have problems. What happens often is that refugee children become fearful and withdrawn and they’re unable to place their trust in others. That’s why we organized and developed these Team-Up activities, where they play and do simple kinds of activities for children from 6-18 years old. We combine these activities to deal with their complicated feelings. So, each activity has a special goal related to things like dealing with anger, stress, interacting with others. Ultimately, we want to help to provide children with emotional support. I’ve seen a lot of groups doing activities, what you see with these children in the first place when they arrive, they’re not participating. They’re just standing there, doing nothing. They don’t communicate, they just wait because they’ve lost all of their confidence and trust in others.
And what you see after a couple of times that they’re in TeamUp groups, they’re changing step by step. You see a difference in the look in their eyes, they’re laughing. Of course it is difficult and it takes time. But it’s so beautiful to see that change. We also think it’s so unfair that they have to change location every time. Because then they have a group, they’re starting to trust other children and people around them and then they have to change location and start over again. In the Netherlands, TeamUp provides support to refugee children in more than 25 centers and in 17 schools. The activities are delivered by trained professionals and volunteers. We’re very happy that this kind of support is being given here in the Netherlands. I’m also proud that these activities are also used now in other countries in the world, Uganda is also using these activities and TeamUp as well. You see that this is universal, this is for all children.’’
Do you think that the children’s right of privacy is sufficiently guaranteed in asylum seekers centres in the Netherlands?
‘’I’ve looked in the latest report we have from the working group of children in asylum seekers centres on the living condition. There it states that privacy is difficult for children. The things that they’ve mentioned is often that the sanitary facilities have to be shared, rooms have to be shared. It’s difficult for children to withdraw sometimes, which is so important. Some children also feel unsafe when they go to the bathroom by themselves. It’s difficult to find a place to do your homework. You’re often with your whole family in one room, which is quite busy. So that is a difficult point. We advocate for at least private sanitary facilities and quite places for children where they can do homework or just chill out.’’
A few weeks ago we had an interview with Lama, she had to flee to the Netherlands a few years ago and we asked her what she thought could be different. She talked about that there should be more focus on the mental well-being of children who have fled. What do you think UNICEF in the Netherlands could do about this?
‘’I think what UNICEF is doing is TeamUp. Together of course with Save the Children and WarChild. That’s good but it’s not enough. There really should be more access for the care of children on the psychosocial-support. I think what we as a community and the government in the Netherlands should do is to emphasize more the social support of refugee children. There are waiting lists and not enough money for them to make use of it. I think there’s still much room for improvement.’’
What do you think as a child or as an adult, we could do to spread more awareness or be more aware of the problems?
‘’What we see now, also in these Covid-times, is that people are busy with their own things. When you talk to individuals they all agree we should do something about this problem. But as a group, the political situation is rather difficult. I’d say that what you are doing is so important. I think we, as an organization, can give and sent information and communicate over and over again. But sometimes people get tired of it, they will be like: ’There they are again with the same message.’ That’s why I think we should change that and hear about the youth. Because the force of youth is so strong. We will go on with all of our messages, advocacy and lobbying. But if that would be supported by the voice of youth that would be great. That’s why I think that what you are doing is so important. I also think it should be supported by educational schools. Problems that are happening in the world right now is something that should be discussed in schools. ‘What are we seeing in the world? These are people of your age.’ I mean, you don’t have to have strong opinions about this, but just be aware of it. We should focus on influencers who want to tell a story. Not just the hard stories, but also the successes. Take Lama for example, it’s beautiful where she is now and what she’s done. I think we have to tell all the stories.’’
Is there anything else you would like to share with us?
‘’We must continue all together to stand up for refugee children in the Netherlands. But not only in the Netherlands, everywhere in the world. As I’ve said before, you only flee when there’s no other way out. All children must be able to grow up protected and safe, they must be able to develop themselves in order to get the best out of themselves and to be prepared for their future. That’s universal.’’
Could you please tell us something about yourself & about your job as director of UNICEF the Netherlands?
‘’I think it’s great that you two are involved in Forced to Flee and that you are also part of the UNICEF youth panel in the Netherlands. Because it’s so important to listen to youth, to take your ideas into consideration and to learn from you. My name is Suzanne Laszlo. I’ve been working for UNICEF for almost 4 yours now. I’m very proud to be working for UNICEF. It’s a privilege to be able to stand up for children’s rights. From our office in the Netherlands we raise funds for children worldwide, we lobby for the rights of children in the Netherlands and abroad and we provide information about children’s rights, especially in schools. Before UNICEF I worked for the Netherlands ‘red cross’ for a very long time, so I know the field of humanitarian aid and development very well.
We work here with a team of over a 100 people to make as much of an impact as possible for children. So that they can grow up safe and healthy, no matter where they are born. Because, both of you know that, we are there for every child.’’
What part of your job do you like the most?
‘’There are two things I like the most about my job. The first thing is being part of an organization who supports vulnerable people, in this case children. That’s for me the most important thing about my job. No matter what I do in an organization, I think it’s very important that the impact of the organization I support should be for children. Every day I know I can give support to those who don’t have everything that we have and what we have had when we were children.
Another thing that I like about my job is to work in teams and to see whatever we can do with, in this case, 100 people. To get the most out of it and get everyone to do their best. Give them their own responsibility, inspire them, so that the impact and the results are as high as possible.’’
The UNICEF website states that UNICEF is committed to every child from the Netherlands; regardless of gender, origin, religion or skin color- worldwide. This means that UNICEF is also committed to children that have to flee due to various circumstances. Can you tell us a bit more about this?
‘’Yes. All children in the world have the same rights. We all know that. And refugee children are one of the most vulnerable groups of children in the Netherlands, in terms of care, education, shelter or legal position, health care and the start of their future. It’s very important to realize that children fleeing from a country don’t just do that. A lot has to happen before that. It’s brutal for children and everything that we as UNICEF can do to make these children feel safe again and to offer certainty about the future, we have to do. I think for UNICEF it’s important that refugee and migrant children can go to school, have access to health care, a safe place to sleep and live and help to cope with any traumatic experiences they have had.
In the Netherlands, our focus is on advocacy and lobby to improve the living conditions in asylum seekers centers. We also advocate for a child-friendly returning procedure. That means that if children have to leave, this has to be prepared carefully. So that everyone can be sure that there is a future for the child in the country where they will be returning. So that they can be safe. One other important thing is the endless moving of children. They’ll have trouble making friends, they develop emotional problems and often end up at the bottom of waiting lists at a new location. Eventually they don’t want to make new friends anymore because they’re not sure if they can stay and they have to do it again and again. That makes them very uncertain about everything that’s going to happen.’’
What is it that UNICEF does about that problem?
‘’We talk with governments. We talk with all people that are involved to explain to them again and again that this is a problem. UNICEF has a lot of research so we can prove that it’s not good for children and that there are children’s rights. Governments rectified these rights so they have to take all these rights into account and that’s not always the case.’’
Speaking about rights, we’d like to know what do you think is the most important children’s right?
‘’It’s so difficult to choose one. There are two that I think are perhaps the most important. The first one is the right to have your own opinion and to be heard. I think children need to be able to give their opinion on things that concern them. That doesn’t mean we have to do everything children are saying. But just really and seriously listening is so important.
And the other one is education. Learning in a safe place, developing yourself. It’s so incredibly important, it gives them better opportunities for the future.’’
Do you think that these children’s rights are guaranteed during the journey that many children on the run have to experience?
‘’I’m afraid not. We all know that the children on the run lack a lot. And we know that when the parents make the choice to flee, the situation must be bad. They’re vulnerable and often in danger. So, I think being heard and having education is sadly often not possible when you’re fleeing. Parents know that it’ll be very difficult for children. When this is the choice they make, you can imagine how their life must be. It’s often also out of love for their children, because they want to offer them a safer future.’’
Could you think of other children’s rights that can’t be guaranteed during this journey?
‘’When you’re going from country to country you’ll probably have something to eat and a place to sleep but all of the other rights, you don’t have them in that situation. And that’s why migrant children/ refugee children are so vulnerable. And we have to change the situation for those children.’’
Speaking of children’s rights and the journey these refugees have to take. What would you personally like to change in the way that the Netherlands deals with the children who have to flee from their country?
‘’I first think that when the children are here they shouldn’t have to move all the time. And they should have access to education. We should really think about the mental support we can give to them. There is a lot of social support needed, because they are traumatized. I think these are the kind of things we could do better in the Netherlands. We’re a rich country, we have almost everything we need. And I even think that we could accommodate more children in the Netherlands to be honest.’’
As the director of UNICEF in the Netherlands, what do you think UNICEF can contribute to children fleeing to the Netherlands?
‘’What we’re already doing is the lobby and advocacy. But perhaps it’s also good to talk about Team-Up. Because that’s a program that we’ve developed together with WarChild and Save the Children for refugee children in the Netherlands to give them social and emotional support, through sports and activities. What we’ve seen is that refugee children are so exposed to traumatic events and experiences that gives significant stress during the journeys. They often have nightmares and they can really have problems. What happens often is that refugee children become fearful and withdrawn and they’re unable to place their trust in others. That’s why we organized and developed these Team-Up activities, where they play and do simple kinds of activities for children from 6-18 years old. We combine these activities to deal with their complicated feelings. So, each activity has a special goal related to things like dealing with anger, stress, interacting with others. Ultimately, we want to help to provide children with emotional support. I’ve seen a lot of groups doing activities, what you see with these children in the first place when they arrive, they’re not participating. They’re just standing there, doing nothing. They don’t communicate, they just wait because they’ve lost all of their confidence and trust in others.
And what you see after a couple of times that they’re in TeamUp groups, they’re changing step by step. You see a difference in the look in their eyes, they’re laughing. Of course it is difficult and it takes time. But it’s so beautiful to see that change. We also think it’s so unfair that they have to change location every time. Because then they have a group, they’re starting to trust other children and people around them and then they have to change location and start over again. In the Netherlands, TeamUp provides support to refugee children in more than 25 centers and in 17 schools. The activities are delivered by trained professionals and volunteers. We’re very happy that this kind of support is being given here in the Netherlands. I’m also proud that these activities are also used now in other countries in the world, Uganda is also using these activities and TeamUp as well. You see that this is universal, this is for all children.’’
Do you think that the children’s right of privacy is sufficiently guaranteed in asylum seekers centres in the Netherlands?
‘’I’ve looked in the latest report we have from the working group of children in asylum seekers centres on the living condition. There it states that privacy is difficult for children. The things that they’ve mentioned is often that the sanitary facilities have to be shared, rooms have to be shared. It’s difficult for children to withdraw sometimes, which is so important. Some children also feel unsafe when they go to the bathroom by themselves. It’s difficult to find a place to do your homework. You’re often with your whole family in one room, which is quite busy. So that is a difficult point. We advocate for at least private sanitary facilities and quite places for children where they can do homework or just chill out.’’
A few weeks ago we had an interview with Lama, she had to flee to the Netherlands a few years ago and we asked her what she thought could be different. She talked about that there should be more focus on the mental well-being of children who have fled. What do you think UNICEF in the Netherlands could do about this?
‘’I think what UNICEF is doing is TeamUp. Together of course with Save the Children and WarChild. That’s good but it’s not enough. There really should be more access for the care of children on the psychosocial-support. I think what we as a community and the government in the Netherlands should do is to emphasize more the social support of refugee children. There are waiting lists and not enough money for them to make use of it. I think there’s still much room for improvement.’’
What do you think as a child or as an adult, we could do to spread more awareness or be more aware of the problems?
‘’What we see now, also in these Covid-times, is that people are busy with their own things. When you talk to individuals they all agree we should do something about this problem. But as a group, the political situation is rather difficult. I’d say that what you are doing is so important. I think we, as an organization, can give and sent information and communicate over and over again. But sometimes people get tired of it, they will be like: ’There they are again with the same message.’ That’s why I think we should change that and hear about the youth. Because the force of youth is so strong. We will go on with all of our messages, advocacy and lobbying. But if that would be supported by the voice of youth that would be great. That’s why I think that what you are doing is so important. I also think it should be supported by educational schools. Problems that are happening in the world right now is something that should be discussed in schools. ‘What are we seeing in the world? These are people of your age.’ I mean, you don’t have to have strong opinions about this, but just be aware of it. We should focus on influencers who want to tell a story. Not just the hard stories, but also the successes. Take Lama for example, it’s beautiful where she is now and what she’s done. I think we have to tell all the stories.’’
Is there anything else you would like to share with us?
‘’We must continue all together to stand up for refugee children in the Netherlands. But not only in the Netherlands, everywhere in the world. As I’ve said before, you only flee when there’s no other way out. All children must be able to grow up protected and safe, they must be able to develop themselves in order to get the best out of themselves and to be prepared for their future. That’s universal.’’